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This is about rock piles and stone mound sites in New England. A balance is needed between keeping them secret and making them public. Also arrowheads, stone tools and other surface archaeology.
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As the editor of this blog I want to give an opinion about this "Mayans in Georgia" concept; which is meeting with a lot of derision.
ReplyDeleteThe denial of the possibility is just too vehement to be taken any more seriously than the concept itself and I have not heard anything scientific in the way of a refutation. The facts are there on the ground and the comparison with the Mayans has been made. Given the nature of mounds in America and in New England - it is a reasonable comparison. So deal with it! And try to stick to the verifiable not the ad hominem.
I have seen ball courts in AZ and know that trade networks and mechanisms for cultural (if not genetic) transfer stretched across most of America. Pipe-stone from Minnesota is found everywhere in the US, as are those Olivella shells from CA]. This culture is pan-American and not really originating in central America.
So, as far I know, "Mayan" ideas were not really just Mayan and they extended across the continent. The only real question is about linguistic and genetic relationships. Otherwise, YES, the ideas are Mayan in the same way that Mayan ideas are "Mississippian".
Since the deniers are not doing any genetic testing, or serious linguistic comparisons, or architectural comparisons, or archeo-astronomical comparisons, the derision is pretty empty. And this scientific tribe [this blog] allows ideas to be expressed.
Thanks for saying this. Jan Brown, down in Belize at a Maya Site, said to me that she often reminds people who claim to be open minded to be open minded...
ReplyDeleteThere is an archaeological report on the site, prepared by Johannes Loubser, archaeologist and rock art expert, and someone I know. He uncovered an Indian stone cist grave in one of the stone mounds, along with diagnostic artifacts that place the grave around 1000 B.P. The walls are also similar to those found by Harry Holstein in Alabama. So, where is the scientific evidence that the site is Mayan? I've been to the site, by the way, with the fellow who first brought it to the attention of archaeologists.
ReplyDeleteI am not going to defend Thornton's thesis. There is not a lot of evidence either way. He says there are similarities between Track Rock Gap and the Mayan sites. What would you consider scientific evidence of such similarity? I'll wait for the genetic and linguistic studies and meanwhile I assume a pan-American culture that is not specifically Mayan.
ReplyDeleteOf course painted buntings don't hold their tails like parrots ;)
ReplyDeleteThe Carolina Parakeet (Conuropsis carolinensis)[Note 1] was the only parrot species native to the eastern United States. It was found from southern New York and Wisconsin to the Gulf of Mexico, and lived in old forests along rivers.[2] It is the only species classified in the genus Conuropsis. It was called puzzi la née ("head of yellow") or pot pot chee by the Seminole and kelinky in Chickasaw.[3] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Parakeet
ReplyDeleteIf there were Mayans in the Tract Rock Gap area, I would be the first to be excited about it. Certainly, corn, squash, some trade goods, and in my opinion, tenants of their belief systems have migrated from south to north America. Placing the Mayans themselves, and their building practices, at Track Rock Gap is not so provable. Of course, one can say that there is not much evidence on either side, but disproving a negative is difficult. I could say that George Washington slept there, so prove me wrong.
ReplyDeleteI have been involved with the research and interpretation of this site for many years. My engineering company has participated with both time and money in the in the research at Track Rock Gap including financing much of what Waldrip, Loubser and others have produced. I only need to cite one example of the fallacy of the "Mayans at Track Rock Gap" theory. The drawing being shown in so many of these articles is not even close to accurate in the lay of the land or the placement of the stone walls, even when taking into account it's rudimentary form. Its elevations and geographical depictions are comical. Roads that are being shown are not there. There are no stone platform mounds. Huge erosional rivulets, which are key to the evolution of the site over time, are not shown. There are no stone walls on what appears to be the Northeast facing slope. None. Last, but not least, hundreds of individual stone piles are left out. How do I know this? I paid for a Total Station survey of the site years ago. I know where every stone wall and pile on the site is located both vertically and horizontally.
I could cite articles. I could provide links to them. I won't do that. This is a wonderful opportunity for the low information armchair researchers, that are titillated by this sort of thing, to do some research of their own. Like I said prior, "If there were Mayans in the Track Rock Gap area, I would be the first to be excited about it".
I have always had a passion for archaeology, even considered to have it be my career in an 8th grade career report. Having said that, I did not ever become a professional(in any field) and all my archaeological interest has been at the armchair level(google PhD).
ReplyDeleteI agree that the discourse against Mayan-Georgia connection at Track Rock Gap archaeological site has been predominantly ad-hominem not scientific. On the other hand, the theories and evidence for a Mayan-Georgia connection has been presented reasonably, with linguistics, architecture, carbon-dating etc. I cannot wrap my head around why such a Mayan-Georgia connection is so unfathomable to some in the academic community, when the same folks easily accept that seafaring peoples of earlier times (such as Phoenicians)traded and colonized throughout the Mediterranean even as far as the Atlantic. Is it really so hard to grasp that Mayans were seafaring peoples quite capable of navigating up the coast of the Gulf of Mexico on trade routes, and therefore were already aware of the Southeast indigenous peoples in North America before the collapse of the Mayan Empire? The fact that there is a long history of terraced farms in South American indigenous ruins should peak the interest of the most jaded anthropologist when something similar suddenly appears out of seemingly nowhere in the North Georgia Mountains. I would not expect a Mayan people in a state of diaspora to build the same grand structures as they did before so much of their population perished (perhaps including the passing of many of their masters of architecture). But I would expect refugees to bring their basic ideas with them and to assimilate them as best as possible in their new life in foreign territory